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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number 676

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for the 19th of september 2021 richard

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saunders coming to you from

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yo park

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nice big park

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not far from the skeptic's own studio so

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i thought i'd get out stretch my legs

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and have a look since the laws the

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restrictions have changed recently

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which lets more people come out and

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simply enjoy picnics together

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i think

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the idea is

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that groups of five people can enjoy a

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picnic as long as they're double

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vaccinated

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or something like that so lots of people

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taking advantage of this

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dogs

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as you can hear it's just nice to see

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it's a nice

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spring day here in sydney

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it's just nice to see people out and

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about

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enjoying this weather

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there's a coffee shop at the top of the

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hill here in the park but people are

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wearing masks to get their coffee so

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that's all also good to see

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well

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apart from that what's coming up on this

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week's episode of the skeptic zone

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podcast we're going to kick off

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with the discussion i had with my

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friends rob palmer and susan gerbic

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inspired by a talk i gave about the

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great australian prediction project

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and a question i was asked about well

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what's the harm in people believing in

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psychics and predictions and things like

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that

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inspired rob palmer to contact me

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oh that's a nice car

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there he goes not many cars these days

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to contact me

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and

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initiate a discussion about well what is

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the harm

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you know people believing in bad advice

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or good advice or

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mystical advice or

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it's a very interesting issue

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is it harmful for people to read their

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horoscopes and get a giggle does it lead

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to worse things

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you might find this discussion

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interesting

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also

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as we chat about that we mention

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the website

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sorry anti-vaxxer.com

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which is a controversial website which

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which lists

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basically dead anti-faxes

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and their

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social media posts railing against

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the flu

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jab

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uh

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covert is a hoax i'm not going to get

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the flu shot masks are a bad idea this

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sort of thing

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and then it lists their posts as they're

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in hospital and then

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they're obituary

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it's quite stark

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i wonder what you think about that

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after that it's another report from our

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dear late friend shelly stockton and

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shelley way back in 2017 was looking at

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the

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activities of robert de niro

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and robert f kennedy jr

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when it comes to vaccination

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a great classic report from shelly

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stockin

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and we miss you very much shelley

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and to round off the show it's a dive

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back into the trove archives where we

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look at

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the flu the spanish flu epidemic of 1919

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what were people saying what were they

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doing

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what were the reports of the time

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you will be absolutely amazed on how

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similar

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the attitudes then are to the attitudes

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now especially when it comes to certain

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people not wishing to wear masks and

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even as i wander around this park away

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from everybody

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well it's great to see kids in the

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in the playground on the swings i'm

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wearing a mask and

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it's good to see lots of other people

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are too

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even though

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i think there are family groups and

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anyway people out here enjoying the day

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and what's this oh

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there's a family group over there having

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a nice picnic cheesecake they're eating

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cheesecake in the park how dare they

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where's my invitation

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i know somebody who loves cheesecake

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maybe you love cheesecake too i

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certainly do

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whoa

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sorry i'm just being

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surrounded by these strange birds who

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are swooping low

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it's all happening out here in the park

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well while i dream of cheesecake and

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wander around i hope you enjoy

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[Music]

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folks you have no idea how hard it is to

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do a podcast sometimes you line up these

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international

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guests and they just goof off before the

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interview starts it's susan gerbic from

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gorilla skepticism on wikipedia and rob

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palmer the well-known skeptic hello

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people

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hello hello hello we're all zooming

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together which what

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is uh the world's come to this we all

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zoom together these days we don't meet

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in person we used to we will again one

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day

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now rob you

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you've prompted this little session

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because you saw

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a presentation i did just in the last

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week for the bay area skeptics all about

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the great australian prediction project

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which you've been a part of now for well

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over a year

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and you

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kindly said you enjoyed my talk and

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folks i'll link to that in this week's

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show notes but you made the point that

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uh maybe i could have spoken more

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about the topic and that friend

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tim farley used to talk about this

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what's the harm

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and i was asked that question what's the

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harm in psychic predictions and i gave a

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short answer because there was many uh

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areas to cover but i understand that

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you've got you've got quite a a take on

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this

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your answer to the q a what's the harm

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was reasonable and you were thinking off

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the cuff and you said well if the

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psychic tells somebody you know to to do

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something with their lives like invest

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in stock or make a life choice and then

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they're just making stuff up

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um you know you're just you could be

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messing yourself up and

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you know that could be the harm but

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because i talk about this sort of thing

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at conferences i talked about it at

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cycon at dragon con i wrote papers on it

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so my take on it goes a little further

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than that

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so it's that having these kind of

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beliefs and

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any any event which which um fosters

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these kind of beliefs that people can do

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these things

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leads people to make awful choices about

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going to a neighborhood psychic

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and

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those people in some cases get their

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lives destroyed hmm

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[Music]

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so yes yes i seem to remember that you

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know when they're asking me that what's

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the harm in

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in making predictions and my

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my short answer i guess was along the

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lines of well people who just write

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weekly columns for newspapers and then

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they've forgotten about two days later

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you can argue there's little harm in

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that but where the big harm comes is

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when people rely on these people to give

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them life advice and financial advice

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and health advice

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right right and and in fact there's

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there's a large segment of the

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population this is a under the radar

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under reported problem that go to a

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neighborhood psychic and the person is a

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total con artist and will take them for

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every dollar they can get from them

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and we've learned this from a detective

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named bob nagard who tries to get

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victims back their money

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has a very tough time doing that because

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the law is not on your side because a

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lot of times they want to arrest the

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person if they do they say well you you

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know they didn't have a gun to your head

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why'd you give them any money and people

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have lost

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literally millions of dollars i mean

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that's the upper extreme but people lose

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their life savings they go bankrupt

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they'll get another mortgage and give

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the money to the psychic and just

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because they have believed in these

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things so you know my under my feeling

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about this is any kind of media outlet

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which promotes these people or makes it

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look like it could be real

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puts that idea in people's heads and

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then they're much more likely to be

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devastated by that

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yeah i think you make a very good point

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i i guess you can say there are degrees

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of it ranging from the outright con

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sharks out there out to get every dollar

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they can all the way down to the

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uh

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the person around the corner who does

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readings and foretells the future

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in you know with an innocent outlook but

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ultimately yes there's a lot of harm in

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that

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okay so yeah so i hope you put this in

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the show notes i the article that i did

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that started me being interested in this

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topic was written in skeptical inquiry

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you could google my name rob palmer with

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belief in psychics what's the harm

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and who's to blame and then and i laid

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out all of the problems that this can

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cause in people's lives financially and

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you might not want to put this whole

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thing in but you can edit it i will read

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the my last two sentences three

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sentences all right

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to summarize despite the persistent lack

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of confirming proof and despite all

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evidence to the contrary this ubiquitous

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psychic powers reported in the media

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collectively reinforces the average

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person's belief that this imaginary

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phenomenon is real this contributes at

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least in part to convincing people that

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a psychic can help solve their problems

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and this needlessly exposes them to the

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possibility of destructive unrecoverable

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financial loss at the hands of con

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artists or masters of psychological

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manipulation it seems apparent that any

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and all media outlets perpetrating the

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public

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psychic powers has substantial blood

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stains all over their hands

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now susan with your work on guerrilla

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skepticism and wikipedia what's your

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take on the harm that some of these

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psychics and fortune tellers might do

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well in the

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the australian prediction project these

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um you know fluffy magazines i think you

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know they're writing a prediction about

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what's happening in nicole kidman's life

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and

287
00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:26,160
there's going to be

288
00:10:30,710 --> 00:10:28,720
some sort of uh

289
00:10:33,430 --> 00:10:30,720
you know the prices are going to rise in

290
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:33,440
a different in australia in

291
00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:35,519
real estate or something like that i you

292
00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:36,560
know that's

293
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:38,800
that's just kind of silly fuller kind of

294
00:10:45,110 --> 00:10:42,000
stuff what the problem i see is is more

295
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:45,120
the media they're really pandering to to

296
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:49,279
women and this gossipy kind of uh nature

297
00:10:52,310 --> 00:10:51,360
and i think it's a bit demeaning

298
00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:52,320
and

299
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:56,320
um i also think that it's

300
00:10:59,269 --> 00:10:58,079
it's kind it's wrong that they don't

301
00:11:01,670 --> 00:10:59,279
follow up

302
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:01,680
and and i think that they should be at

303
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:03,440
least coming back with an end of the

304
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:05,360
year review of how they did

305
00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:07,040
i don't like that they're putting these

306
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:08,560
things out and just like okay and then

307
00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:11,120
next week we have another prediction and

308
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:13,839
it's just equally silly and none of it's

309
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:15,279
right i

310
00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:17,440
i feel like it's

311
00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:19,680
just allowing this is filler

312
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:22,160
in all these newspapers and giving these

313
00:11:25,910 --> 00:11:24,480
these psychics a platform

314
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:25,920
um because of course you know they're

315
00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:27,040
they're getting this platform and

316
00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:29,360
they're going on and getting personal uh

317
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:31,120
readings and they're they're able to

318
00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:33,440
sell their website and you know people

319
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:36,160
are like oh like i read in that magazine

320
00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:39,120
oh yeah they're fabulous i just

321
00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:41,680
it's free advertising to them and i

322
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:43,040
doubt they're paid for their work in the

323
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:44,640
magazine maybe they are maybe they

324
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:46,160
aren't for the predictions but it's just

325
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:48,560
advertising and it's it's insulting it's

326
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:50,000
insulting to our intelligence and

327
00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:52,399
especially insulting to

328
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:55,200
them being what we call women's

329
00:11:58,949 --> 00:11:56,800
magazines i'm

330
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:58,959
i'm a bit you know kind of disgusted

331
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,839
with the

332
00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:01,360
magazines putting those out and thinking

333
00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:02,800
that women

334
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:05,200
are so shallow that we

335
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:07,600
really care about what what these

336
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:09,200
celebrities are

337
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:11,519
wearing and who they're dating and

338
00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:14,160
and plucky venus and all that other

339
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:15,680
nonsense that they put out there it's

340
00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:16,560
just

341
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:18,399
come on now we

342
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:20,240
let's have a little more intelligence

343
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:22,720
and maybe a little more respect for your

344
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:24,720
for your readership yeah yeah well i

345
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:27,360
mean as we well know the the number one

346
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:30,079
person listed mentioned predicted about

347
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:32,959
in the whole project is uh nicole kidman

348
00:12:35,990 --> 00:12:35,040
of course and i'll i will run the stats

349
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:36,000
later

350
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:38,800
folks i'm working on the very long paper

351
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:40,560
which will accompany the publication of

352
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:42,160
the great australian prediction project

353
00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:46,000
but we have 213 i counted today psychics

354
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:49,600
and sears in the project 213

355
00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:50,639
and

356
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:52,639
yeah the number one person predicted

357
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:53,600
throughout

358
00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:54,959
nicole kidman

359
00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:56,880
richard i really wanted to say too that

360
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,720
i was really impressed with the talk he

361
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:00,720
gave to the various skeptics

362
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:02,959
i've been a part of this for a while a

363
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:04,079
little over

364
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:06,720
we've been doing this on zoom since june

365
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:10,399
of 2020 yeah it's really eye-opening to

366
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:12,720
to look at the work that the team has

367
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:14,880
done and the

368
00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:17,120
i mean we really take it seriously well

369
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:19,600
okay we laugh a lot we laugh a lot we do

370
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:22,480
take it seriously these these claims and

371
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:24,880
that are made and we try to really do

372
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:26,160
our best

373
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:28,880
work to see if they are accurate or not

374
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:30,480
but when you did the presentation of the

375
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:33,839
berry skeptics i was really amazed just

376
00:13:38,389 --> 00:13:36,240
amazing how much work you put into this

377
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:38,399
i i was looking at the spreadsheet

378
00:13:41,829 --> 00:13:40,079
because you know i've got a copy of that

379
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:41,839
too

380
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:43,760
whenever we would come up with something

381
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:45,279
we would say

382
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:48,000
is that transcribe drive is that is that

383
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:50,240
correct and you'd say hold on and you

384
00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:52,320
would go back to the original

385
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:54,160
uh photograph you had taken of that

386
00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:56,959
entry and you had it at your fingertips

387
00:14:00,150 --> 00:13:58,399
and it was just

388
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:00,160
um looking at the spreadsheet and the

389
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:02,079
amount of work you have done on this

390
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,760
before it even got to our zoom

391
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:07,279
prediction project

392
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:10,079
i i was shocked at

393
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:12,880
going through page by page each magazine

394
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:15,600
having to go to libraries and now those

395
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:17,600
are some incredible libraries i i want

396
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,440
you to know i would love to spend some

397
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:21,360
time in the melbourne state library oh

398
00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:22,639
it's amazing

399
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:24,160
it's beautiful but i've been there a

400
00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:25,920
couple times it's incredible yeah i

401
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:27,040
remember back when you were doing the

402
00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:28,560
reports from from those and you were

403
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:30,160
talking about doing that you know

404
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:31,680
gathering that information

405
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:33,360
i know little did i know we could

406
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:34,399
actually

407
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:35,199
it was

408
00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:36,880
it's an incredible amount of work and

409
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:38,720
anybody who

410
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,160
um

411
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:42,480
i don't know thinks this is a frivolous

412
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:45,120
kind of thing to do this is what we

413
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:48,000
do this is what skeptics should do

414
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:52,000
is to follow up and do the work

415
00:14:55,750 --> 00:14:54,639
tedious as it is tedious as it is well

416
00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:55,760
and see

417
00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:59,600
how to work out let's check it out i

418
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:01,360
mean it could have been accurate it

419
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:02,639
could have been

420
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:06,399
60 percent correct yeah yeah well no

421
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:10,320
well in all honesty we weren't expecting

422
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:13,680
it to be thus as you say but we were

423
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:15,839
interested to see what it really was and

424
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:18,000
yes it's a lot of it it certainly is a

425
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:20,079
lot of tedious work now before we wrap

426
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:21,920
this up i just want to get your opinion

427
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:24,320
and a slightly different topic now

428
00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:26,560
a website came to my attention a couple

429
00:15:31,870 --> 00:15:28,720
of weeks ago which is called sorry

430
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:31,880
anti-vaxxer which is with two x's sorry

431
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:33,440
anti-vaxxer.com

432
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:34,240
which

433
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:36,880
is getting mixed reactions because

434
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:38,959
it lists and gives you pictures

435
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:40,720
photographs of

436
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:43,440
anti-vaxxers on facebook tick tock

437
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:46,320
instagram whatever who are dead

438
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:48,160
from covered

439
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,480
and in many cases you can click on the

440
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:52,639
picture of the the poor deceased person

441
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:54,480
and we do have sympathy

442
00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:55,279
and

443
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:57,199
read their

444
00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:58,079
um

445
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:01,279
screenshots of their anti-vaxx

446
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:04,320
covert as a hoax conspiracy theory

447
00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:05,440
postings

448
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:07,519
and you just got to scroll through page

449
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:09,360
after page after page and there's their

450
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:11,839
life stories and it's

451
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:14,480
it's absorbing and heartbreaking and i

452
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:15,920
just don't know what to think what do

453
00:16:20,069 --> 00:16:18,079
you think of this susan

454
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:20,079
i know exactly what you mean

455
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:22,800
um it's it's like a train wreck i guess

456
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:25,360
you just can't not look and

457
00:16:28,949 --> 00:16:28,079
uh i think we're all fatigued it's been

458
00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:28,959
you know

459
00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:31,040
australia and new zealand are just kind

460
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:32,800
of experiencing what america has been

461
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:35,199
experiencing for the last 18 months

462
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:37,360
and you know i

463
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:39,839
i'm an empathetic person i pride myself

464
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,800
on being

465
00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:43,199
sympathetic to people but at some point

466
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:45,759
you're just sick and tired of it

467
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:47,199
especially since these people did not

468
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:49,440
have to die yeah and i found that

469
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:51,440
website when i see a tweet come up

470
00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:53,120
because you know i get a notification

471
00:16:57,910 --> 00:16:55,360
there's a tweet new tweet and i i

472
00:16:59,430 --> 00:16:57,920
quickly click on it because i'm curious

473
00:17:00,870 --> 00:16:59,440
and

474
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:00,880
i don't know what to think some of the

475
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:04,640
comments are rivenda's and they're cruel

476
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:07,039
and they're

477
00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:09,039
it's it's horrible

478
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:11,679
but i also kind of think they're venting

479
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:13,600
because they're just sick and tired of

480
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:17,280
it as well and it's such a frustrating

481
00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:19,439
thing to see that these people

482
00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:21,280
how they fell into this

483
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:23,039
these beliefs because you can follow

484
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:25,120
them i mean it shows you the comments

485
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:27,120
and the posts they made yeah and this

486
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:30,080
anti-vax site also has come to a

487
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:31,440
conclusion

488
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:33,120
after doing this for a couple months

489
00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:35,200
they've been doing it is that these are

490
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:36,880
sharing they're sharing the same memes

491
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:38,960
over and over and there's no it's just

492
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:40,400
memes there's they're sharing on their

493
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:42,640
facebook pages and they see them over

494
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:43,840
and over and i think that's an

495
00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:45,200
interesting

496
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:47,679
um look into how

497
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:50,320
social media is fueling

498
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:51,360
um

499
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:53,200
owning the libs or whatever they're

500
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:55,360
whatever they're trying to do it's it's

501
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:57,440
sad as heck

502
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:58,960
but

503
00:18:02,630 --> 00:18:00,880
i i don't know what to think of it i i

504
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:02,640
don't comment but i have been reading it

505
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:04,480
it is yeah a really interesting look

506
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:07,280
into these people's lives it it is

507
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:09,919
what's your take on that rub

508
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:12,400
well uh it is depressing looking at it

509
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:14,880
uh i understand the venting because you

510
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:16,720
know a lot of us realize this is going

511
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,400
on and on because of these people and

512
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:20,480
people like them right if everyone was

513
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:22,480
getting vaccinated when it was available

514
00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:24,000
we would not be in the situation we're

515
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:24,799
in

516
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:26,480
so i do understand that by the way on

517
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,080
the page not everyone has died i just

518
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,480
scanned this yes not everyone yes yes

519
00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:32,400
many of them have and a lot of them are

520
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:34,880
listed as being very ill or gravely ill

521
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:37,200
yes currently in icu or having recovered

522
00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:38,640
again it's interesting to look at what's

523
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:40,000
on their you know the current

524
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:43,039
information having recovered um you know

525
00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:45,840
i i feel um less sorry for the the

526
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:47,600
people who every once in a while you've

527
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:50,400
come across who was a public figure who

528
00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:52,799
was promoting the anti-vaccine radio

529
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:54,559
hosts and things like that yep yeah

530
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:55,679
there's certainly a lot of them

531
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:57,679
unfortunately also i tell you what

532
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:58,960
really gets me

533
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:00,960
i'm just looking at a section here on

534
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:02,720
the front page and we've got somebody by

535
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:05,919
the name of josh g britt who was only 36

536
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:08,559
of greenville uh tennessee and he

537
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:11,280
vaccident of covid okay

538
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:13,440
but when i then read

539
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:15,600
the next entry on this page happens to

540
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:16,320
be

541
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:19,919
a nurse by the name of jane holston

542
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:22,640
who was my age

543
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:24,960
anti-vaxxer dead of covert and that

544
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,440
strikes home more than the 36 i mean

545
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:29,760
sympathy's for the 36 that's so young

546
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:32,080
but when you read of somebody

547
00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:34,160
your own age somebody who's been on the

548
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:36,640
same journey as you on the planet you

549
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:38,720
know has the same memories of the 70s

550
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:40,559
and the 80s and everything

551
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:42,960
otherwise probably healthy

552
00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:45,039
dies of covert because she was an

553
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:46,640
anti-vaxxer and

554
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:47,919
i'm just scrolling through it someone's

555
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:51,360
30 years old someone 40 years old 41. 38

556
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:53,120
yeah it's heartbreaking it is

557
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,640
heartbreaking

558
00:20:00,630 --> 00:19:56,880
you know this isn't our site we didn't

559
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:00,640
come up with this no no it's out there

560
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:03,440
it does feel like okay i'm i want to

561
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:06,480
look at it i

562
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:08,000
i don't know why

563
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:11,120
yeah it is i'm i'm a social historian

564
00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:14,640
i'm very interested in people and why

565
00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:16,320
they think the way they think and what

566
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:18,080
they do and

567
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:20,559
there's a lot of sympathy and sometimes

568
00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:22,480
there's a lot of just downright

569
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:24,559
frustration and i wish i could have just

570
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:26,240
grabbed him by the shoulders and shook

571
00:20:30,789 --> 00:20:29,039
him with before this could happen

572
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:30,799
i have a couple friends who refuse to be

573
00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:32,960
vaccinated and i am

574
00:20:35,669 --> 00:20:34,640
i i don't even know them anymore they

575
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:35,679
don't

576
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:37,600
the people i knew

577
00:20:40,870 --> 00:20:40,080
uh aren't they're not them and they're

578
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:40,880
not

579
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:41,760
um

580
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:43,600
on the right they're on the left they're

581
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:45,840
on the extreme left and they just have

582
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:48,159
bought into it it's

583
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:50,240
it really is strange i know the feeling

584
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:51,520
there are people

585
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:53,360
i've known for years who have written to

586
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:55,520
me with conspiracy videos saying you

587
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:58,080
know that the vaccine is the hoax and

588
00:21:01,750 --> 00:20:59,840
all the governments are huge it's very

589
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:01,760
it's very it's very depressing in a

590
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:03,520
sense folks look i'll link to that

591
00:21:07,669 --> 00:21:05,039
website in the show notes it's called

592
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:07,679
sorry anti-vaxxer.com and i would be

593
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:08,720
interested

594
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:11,120
in your opinion my listening audience if

595
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:12,960
you have an opinion on this site please

596
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:15,360
leave a comment on our facebook page

597
00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:16,960
that's the skeptic's own facebook page

598
00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:19,280
you can leave a comment under the uh

599
00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:21,280
the listing for this episode and the

600
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:24,640
link to that page is on skepticzone.tv

601
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:27,039
i think i'm going to go head to kittens

602
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:30,480
we're going to play trivia shortly yes

603
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:32,400
to play trivia but let me end this

604
00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:34,000
segment on something i posted to my own

605
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:36,720
facebook page just yesterday i wrote the

606
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:39,440
following we live in interesting times

607
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:41,039
which is more than i can say for the

608
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:42,720
thousands of vaccine deniers and

609
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:45,360
conspiracy theorists who are not living

610
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:47,679
they are dead from covert 19. the

611
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:49,360
thought occurs to me that some of them

612
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:51,760
many of them are making pleas from their

613
00:21:57,669 --> 00:21:55,360
deathbed as they gasp for air for others

614
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:57,679
not to make the same mistake and begging

615
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:00,320
them to get vaccinated yet they

616
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,559
themselves did not listen to those

617
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:04,880
before them who are now dead

618
00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:06,799
when they made the same plea

619
00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:09,200
maybe some people will get the message

620
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:11,679
it is also a sad reflection of our times

621
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:13,760
that vaccine deniers and conspiracy

622
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,080
theorists will turn on their dying

623
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:18,720
comrades in an instant labeling them as

624
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:21,360
shills or crisis actors for big pharma

625
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:24,240
or the one world government or whatever

626
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:26,720
then it comes full circle when they

627
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:29,440
themselves end up gasping for air and

628
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:31,679
being labeled shills

629
00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:34,159
may be a class action i am looking at

630
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:35,919
you usa

631
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:37,760
against those who push curve at 19

632
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:39,840
conspiracy theories if they are still

633
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:42,159
alive should be launched by the people

634
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:44,159
who have suffered all the families of

635
00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:48,230
wow

636
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:49,840
and on that happy note

637
00:23:06,549 --> 00:22:51,520
thank you very much

638
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:06,559
gobick and rob palmer

639
00:23:11,330 --> 00:23:20,149
[Music]

640
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:21,190
hi

641
00:23:28,149 --> 00:23:25,679
northern rivers vaccination supporters

642
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:28,159
we are a group of concerned citizens

643
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:30,320
dedicated to promoting good science and

644
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:32,960
common sense in our region the far north

645
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:35,280
coast of new south wales

646
00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:37,760
this area famous for its natural beauty

647
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:39,679
and relaxed lifestyle

648
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:42,240
also has the lowest rates of vaccination

649
00:23:46,390 --> 00:23:44,080
in australia

650
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:46,400
we are out to change that by challenging

651
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:49,039
the myths and misinformation and by

652
00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:50,880
providing good evidence-based

653
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:53,440
information to the community

654
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:55,440
we'd love for you no matter where you

655
00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:58,480
are in the world to join our fight

656
00:24:02,420 --> 00:24:00,720
please visit our webpage

657
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:02,430
at www.nrv

658
00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:07,909
we also have a link there to our

659
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:09,520
facebook page

660
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:11,159
tweet us at

661
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:14,480
nrvax supporters that's vax

662
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:16,480
and check us out on wikipedia by

663
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:18,640
searching for northern rivers

664
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:20,720
vaccination supporters

665
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:22,770
thank you

666
00:24:37,590 --> 00:24:35,350
[Music]

667
00:24:39,269 --> 00:24:37,600
interesting claims

668
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:39,279
questioning

669
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:40,799
take stock

670
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:44,090
with shelly stocking

671
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:49,600
[Music]

672
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:52,640
hi i'm shelley stockin and today i'm

673
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:56,559
talking about anti-vaccine actors

674
00:25:00,070 --> 00:24:58,320
by now you've probably heard about the

675
00:25:02,070 --> 00:25:00,080
press conference held last week by

676
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:02,080
robert f kennedy jr and his world

677
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:03,679
mercury project

678
00:25:08,789 --> 00:25:06,880
which launched a challenge to find quote

679
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:08,799
a peer-reviewed scientific study

680
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:11,360
demonstrating that thimerosal is safe in

681
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:12,960
the amounts contained in vaccines

682
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:14,799
currently being administered to american

683
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:17,200
children and pregnant women end quote

684
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:18,640
[Music]

685
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:20,400
prominently featured in the promotion of

686
00:25:25,029 --> 00:25:22,640
this challenge and present at the media

687
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:25,039
conference was robert de niro

688
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:26,960
who most recently dipped his toe in the

689
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:29,039
cauldron of vaccine denial when he

690
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:31,279
included then cancelled

691
00:25:36,789 --> 00:25:33,440
a showing of andrew wakefield's vaxxed

692
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:36,799
documentary at his 2016 tribeca film

693
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:38,960
festival

694
00:25:42,870 --> 00:25:41,279
i like many others watching on have been

695
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:42,880
asking myself

696
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:44,880
what has de niro got to do with vaccine

697
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:48,880
safety he's an actor for crying out loud

698
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:51,360
if like me you've ever applauded a

699
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:54,240
performance by de niro in a feature film

700
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:57,120
the sight of him sitting mostly mute at

701
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:59,279
this outpouring of well-worn debunked

702
00:26:02,549 --> 00:26:01,440
anti-vaccine tropes parading as a press

703
00:26:05,669 --> 00:26:02,559
conference

704
00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:05,679
is both sad and baffling

705
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:07,679
sad because it's hard to accept that de

706
00:26:12,870 --> 00:26:10,559
niro who has an autistic son has been

707
00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:12,880
tempted by the poisoned apple of vaccine

708
00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:15,200
denialism

709
00:26:20,390 --> 00:26:17,600
baffling because even if de niro had a

710
00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:20,400
strong evidence-based message to share

711
00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:22,400
concerning vaccine safety

712
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:24,159
sitting on a stool in a press club with

713
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:26,240
his mouth shut isn't a very good way to

714
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,480
share it

715
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:30,320
de niro's an actor

716
00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:32,000
his most effective medium of

717
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:34,240
communication is film

718
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:36,480
so i thought why don't i pitch him a

719
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:39,360
screenplay so he can really get his or

720
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:41,760
rather kennedy's message across to his

721
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:43,520
usual audience

722
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:46,159
so here it is my pitch

723
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:48,240
i hope you're listening mr de niro as i

724
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,000
present to you

725
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:52,480
finding mercury

726
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:53,840
a film

727
00:27:00,789 --> 00:26:58,789
the opening credits fade as we begin the

728
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:00,799
first scene

729
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:04,840
interior police chief kennedy's office

730
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:08,159
day detective de niro enters

731
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:11,279
de niro you wanted to see me sir

732
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:13,600
kennedy close the door

733
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:15,520
de niro closes the door behind him

734
00:27:18,789 --> 00:27:17,520
looking interested

735
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:18,799
kennedy

736
00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:20,480
i got something for you

737
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:22,240
something big

738
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:23,440
de niro

739
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:26,000
what kind of thing

740
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,200
kennedy

741
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:29,279
it's kind of a

742
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:32,000
missing person's case

743
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:34,799
de niro whoa whoa whoa you know that's

744
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:37,440
not my style i do funny grandpas

745
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:40,000
mobsters stuff like that

746
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:42,240
kennedy don't give me any stick over

747
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:44,320
this you're all we have

748
00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:45,600
de niro

749
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:48,159
what about wakefield big tree one of

750
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:50,320
those guys

751
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:51,520
kennedy

752
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:53,679
they ain't doing so well at the box

753
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:55,760
office if you know what i mean

754
00:27:59,510 --> 00:27:58,320
de niro

755
00:28:03,430 --> 00:27:59,520
okay

756
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:03,440
what exactly am i looking for kennedy

757
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:06,559
we want you to find safe vaccines

758
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:07,919
de niro

759
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:08,960
safe

760
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:14,080
kennedy

761
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:14,960
well

762
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:17,760
you know vaccines without samara

763
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,960
thymus or mercury in them

764
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,480
de niro

765
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:24,640
wasn't mercury removed from all vaccines

766
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:26,240
in the childhood schedule back in the

767
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:27,600
90s

768
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:29,440
kennedy god damn it you'll have to go

769
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:31,919
deeper than that de niro get out and

770
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:33,679
don't come back until you find me a safe

771
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:35,600
vaccine according to my very specific

772
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:37,360
definition of safe which could change at

773
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,750
time passes

774
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:46,149
exterior a park bench in a city

775
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:47,440
somewhere

776
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:49,360
day

777
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:51,360
police chief kennedy sits on a bench in

778
00:28:57,669 --> 00:28:55,200
civilian clothes feeding pigeons

779
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:57,679
as detective de niro approaches he looks

780
00:29:01,269 --> 00:28:58,399
up

781
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:01,279
giving a slight nod hello

782
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:04,000
de niro chief

783
00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:05,360
kennedy

784
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:07,520
it's a good day for good news bob you

785
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:09,520
got any

786
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:11,760
de niro sits down slowly next to kennedy

787
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:12,960
on the bench

788
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:16,080
they both look out into the distance

789
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:17,600
de niro

790
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:19,360
thing is chief

791
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:21,360
i asked around

792
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:24,960
i spoke to doctors nurses scientists

793
00:29:29,590 --> 00:29:26,799
busy moms

794
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:29,600
and they all pointed to the kids

795
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:31,120
kids chief

796
00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:33,520
thousands of them running around

797
00:29:39,029 --> 00:29:37,200
in playgrounds schools malls everywhere

798
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:39,039
it was as if they'd never even heard of

799
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:42,159
polio or mumps or sub-acute sclerosing

800
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:44,159
pan-encephalitis

801
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:45,919
and you know what

802
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:47,039
kennedy

803
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:48,720
tell me

804
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:50,399
de niro

805
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,480
not one of those kids could tell me

806
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:54,480
where the safe vaccines were

807
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:55,919
not one

808
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:58,880
i got nothing for you chief

809
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:02,159
kennedy looks down at his feet

810
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:04,240
i knew it

811
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:05,440
there are

812
00:30:43,980 --> 00:30:10,920
fade out

813
00:31:22,070 --> 00:30:50,880
[Music]

814
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:30,100
uh

815
00:31:30,110 --> 00:31:43,029
[Music]

816
00:31:47,269 --> 00:31:45,430
now it's time once again to tiptoe not

817
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:47,279
through the tulips but to tiptoe into

818
00:31:51,789 --> 00:31:49,519
those digital archives

819
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:51,799
at trove

820
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:53,760
trove.nla.gov.eu the online resource

821
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:55,360
from the australian government and the

822
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:57,600
national library of australia digitized

823
00:32:02,070 --> 00:32:00,080
newspapers gazettes magazines journals

824
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:02,080
periodicals

825
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:04,880
diaries and so on

826
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:06,320
and this week i thought we'd make a

827
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,440
slight variation a slight deviation from

828
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:11,760
our normal theme of the supernatural the

829
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:13,200
paranormal

830
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:16,240
and look at something that happened

831
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:18,080
more than a century ago

832
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:20,480
the 1919

833
00:32:24,149 --> 00:32:22,240
spanish flu

834
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:24,159
and i thought this would

835
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:26,240
be of particular

836
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:28,799
relevance today during our current

837
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:30,240
pandemic

838
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:32,000
what lessons can we learn what

839
00:32:37,870 --> 00:32:33,600
similarities

840
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:39,669
[Music]

841
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:41,200
and our first entry comes from the

842
00:32:45,669 --> 00:32:44,240
sydney morning herald dated the 25th of

843
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:45,679
february

844
00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:48,000
1919

845
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,200
mask

846
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:51,840
prosecutions

847
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:54,000
pleading guilty yesterday at the central

848
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:57,279
police court to the charge of being in

849
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:00,240
an oxford street tram

850
00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:03,760
without wearing a mask elaine lee 19 was

851
00:33:09,669 --> 00:33:07,360
fined 20 shillings in default seven days

852
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:09,679
imprisonment defendants said that she

853
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:12,559
had her mask under her chin

854
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:15,360
as she was suffering from qatar

855
00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:17,279
and incidentally and i didn't know this

856
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:18,559
guitar

857
00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:21,440
according to a search excessive

858
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:23,840
discharge or buildup of mucus in the

859
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:25,760
nose or throat

860
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:28,960
associated with inflammation of the

861
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:30,960
mucous membrane

862
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:32,320
we read on

863
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:34,080
for being in oxford street without a

864
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:38,240
mask sydney vincent jones 18 laborer was

865
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:41,279
fined 30 shillings in default 10 days

866
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:42,480
imprisonment

867
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:44,799
the prosecuting constable said that the

868
00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:48,399
defendant gave a wrong address

869
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:52,559
frank edward roberts 37 wolf laborer was

870
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:55,120
fined 20 shillings in default seven days

871
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:57,440
imprisonment for being in elizabeth

872
00:34:01,990 --> 00:33:59,120
street without a mask

873
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:02,000
for a similar offence in belvoir street

874
00:34:08,149 --> 00:34:05,120
james clark 28 barman

875
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:08,159
was also fined 20 shillings clark said

876
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:10,720
he understood that persons were not

877
00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:14,560
required to wear masks in unfrequented

878
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,560
streets

879
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:18,960
and that newspaper clipping could have

880
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:20,399
come from

881
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:21,679
yesterday

882
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:23,280
with the fines

883
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:25,679
and punishments of course being

884
00:34:29,430 --> 00:34:26,639
different

885
00:34:31,030 --> 00:34:29,440
and incidentally one of the fines here

886
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:31,040
in sydney at the moment if you're out of

887
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:33,280
your

888
00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:35,520
restricted area or you've gone into

889
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:37,520
another area so to speak is a thousand

890
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:38,480
dollars

891
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:40,560
and the fine for not wearing a mask when

892
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:43,599
required is 500

893
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:47,200
the next clipping we find comes from

894
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:50,639
sometime later in fact 1948

895
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:53,280
on the 26th of may in the sun from

896
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:55,119
sydney australia

897
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:57,920
sun readers say

898
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:59,280
nose bags

899
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,720
for flu

900
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:02,480
and this appears to be a letter to the

901
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:03,760
editor

902
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:07,359
if you hit a fellow citizen on the skull

903
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,000
with a piece of two by one

904
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:12,480
and put him into hospital for a week you

905
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:14,400
will very properly

906
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:18,000
be sent to jail but if you send a fellow

907
00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:20,320
citizen to bed for a week in persistent

908
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:23,520
pain and distress by sneezing influenza

909
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:25,040
germs over him

910
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:28,560
you remain as free as the birds and the

911
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:31,200
germs of the air

912
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,280
until disease carriers are taught that

913
00:35:38,790 --> 00:35:35,760
it is wantonly antisocial to distribute

914
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:38,800
their germs far and wide in our compact

915
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:42,160
communities they can be neither sincere

916
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:43,440
citizenship

917
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:45,920
or sustained health in our crowded

918
00:35:49,829 --> 00:35:46,880
cities

919
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:49,839
perhaps we could force some kind of

920
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:52,960
responsibility on casual flu spreaders

921
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:55,599
by obliging them to

922
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:57,040
wear a mask

923
00:36:01,430 --> 00:36:00,000
we did it once before in the spanish flu

924
00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:01,440
epidemic

925
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:04,480
why not make it a regular safeguard

926
00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:05,440
l

927
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:07,119
s b

928
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:08,480
erskineville

929
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:12,880
of sydney

930
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:15,280
sounds like good advice to me

931
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:18,480
and now we go back to 1919

932
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:22,160
written on the 10th of february

933
00:36:28,069 --> 00:36:24,880
and published in the grafton argus and

934
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:28,079
clarence river general advertiser

935
00:36:35,190 --> 00:36:31,760
influenza the disease more deadly

936
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:35,200
melbourne's terrible experience

937
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:36,720
racing throughout new south wales

938
00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:38,160
prohibited

939
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:40,320
there we are even in 1919 they've got

940
00:36:44,069 --> 00:36:42,240
their priorities correct

941
00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:44,079
and putting up racing at the top of the

942
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:45,520
article

943
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:47,839
sydney friday night the state cabinet

944
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:50,320
today decided to prohibit all racing

945
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:52,240
throughout new south wales until further

946
00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:54,560
notice this means the cancellation of

947
00:36:58,310 --> 00:36:57,119
the casino and armadale meetings of

948
00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:58,320
course

949
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:01,359
altogether there were nine new cases in

950
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:02,720
sydney today

951
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:05,839
four of them on the two infected ships

952
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:11,030
at the quarantine

953
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:12,880
station north head

954
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:16,400
dr mcmikken of melbourne hospital says

955
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:19,200
the infectivity of the disease there is

956
00:37:24,470 --> 00:37:21,520
increasing all the cases now being

957
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:24,480
admitted being of the pneumonic type

958
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:26,800
queensland is still free of the epidemic

959
00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:30,079
so is tasmania and west australia

960
00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:31,839
and i'll just stop there to say this is

961
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:33,520
really history repeating itself it's

962
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:35,040
amazing this is

963
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:37,040
very similar to the situation now in

964
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:38,400
2021

965
00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:41,040
we read on the government is preparing a

966
00:37:47,109 --> 00:37:44,079
scheme for the moratorium which it has

967
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:47,119
decided on to apply to all persons

968
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:50,320
affected by governmental proclamations a

969
00:37:57,030 --> 00:37:54,320
preliminary vote of 10 000 pounds for

970
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:57,040
relief of distress is to be made

971
00:38:02,390 --> 00:37:59,680
available by the state treasury the

972
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:02,400
director general of health denies the

973
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:05,440
prevalent assertion that masks are

974
00:38:08,950 --> 00:38:06,640
unhealthy

975
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:08,960
he says that if they are kept properly

976
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:09,920
clean

977
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:12,640
the wearer doesn't re-breathe the same

978
00:38:18,470 --> 00:38:15,839
air dr george fox of balmain today

979
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:18,480
elected to go to jail

980
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:21,040
instead of finding bail

981
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:23,839
for refusing to wear a mask the doctor

982
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:27,119
said he considered masks unhealthy

983
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:28,320
and gave

984
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:31,520
reason also why he considered the

985
00:38:35,589 --> 00:38:33,920
proclamation illegal

986
00:38:38,630 --> 00:38:35,599
the new south wales government has

987
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:38,640
decided to ensure for 500 pounds the

988
00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:42,079
lives of all hospital employees who are

989
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:45,680
told off to attend influenza parties

990
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:48,720
private angus mckenzie an inmate of the

991
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:51,520
influenza isolation ward at randwick

992
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:53,200
military hospital

993
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:54,240
has

994
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:55,599
escaped

995
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:57,920
the military authorities regard the

996
00:39:02,630 --> 00:39:00,640
matter as serious and published a

997
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:02,640
description of him in view of the

998
00:39:06,150 --> 00:39:04,960
possibility of mackenzie spreading the

999
00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:06,160
disease

1000
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:08,720
the military are particularly anxious to

1001
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:10,320
apprehend him

1002
00:39:15,030 --> 00:39:12,480
it is believed he went to the south

1003
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:15,040
coast mackenzie's record is that he

1004
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:17,359
joined the forces twice he was still

1005
00:39:22,470 --> 00:39:19,839
serving a sentence for desertion

1006
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:22,480
when he left for england apparently he

1007
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:25,599
arrived in england only to desert again

1008
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:28,720
how he returned to sydney he refuses to

1009
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:31,520
divulge mr hunter acting premier of

1010
00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:33,680
queensland said today the federal

1011
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:35,440
authorities are showing a callous

1012
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:37,920
disregard for their responsibility

1013
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:40,720
and unless the states make a determined

1014
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:42,720
stand to protect the people from

1015
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:44,960
infection from overseas

1016
00:39:49,589 --> 00:39:47,599
the graves results may ensue

1017
00:39:51,990 --> 00:39:49,599
the secretary of the shop assistance

1018
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:52,000
union said today the shops had a good

1019
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:54,480
time during the war and it is up to them

1020
00:39:59,430 --> 00:39:56,800
to be generous to their employees

1021
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:59,440
none have actively closed yet but hands

1022
00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:00,880
have been reduced

1023
00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:02,400
the board of health have received a

1024
00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:06,079
report concerning the death at tyrol

1025
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:09,280
allegedly due to mnemonic influenza the

1026
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:12,000
report says that this is incorrect the

1027
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:14,480
patient died from ordinary pneumonia

1028
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:17,040
which had become septic the reported

1029
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:19,920
case that adlethin is also shown not to

1030
00:40:25,589 --> 00:40:23,760
have been one of mnemonic influenza

1031
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:25,599
according to the melbourne newspaper

1032
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:28,240
reports the disease is now

1033
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:31,680
evidently distributed all over victoria

1034
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:33,440
yet many towns are still complaining

1035
00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:36,720
that they cannot get vaccine

1036
00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:39,200
good grief sorry i have to stop again

1037
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:41,040
this isn't this is amazing this is

1038
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:42,800
really history repeating itself it's

1039
00:40:45,510 --> 00:40:44,160
just astonishing

1040
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:45,520
we read on

1041
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:47,359
providing the different states are

1042
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:49,440
agreeable the federal government

1043
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:51,760
expresses willingness to institute the

1044
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:54,000
passport system for interstate

1045
00:40:57,750 --> 00:40:55,760
passengers

1046
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:57,760
i'm sorry when was this written this is

1047
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:01,119
getting this is the twilight zone

1048
00:41:06,069 --> 00:41:03,760
this is really spooky

1049
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,079
the board of health announces that 10

1050
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:08,319
deaths occurred at melbourne hospital

1051
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:10,319
since midnight this makes the total

1052
00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:12,800
number of deaths 115

1053
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:15,440
25 new cases were admitted to the

1054
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:17,920
hospitals and 10 cases at the children's

1055
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:20,480
hospital who were suspiciously in for a

1056
00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:21,920
couple of days

1057
00:41:26,390 --> 00:41:24,079
are now declared to be suffering from

1058
00:41:27,630 --> 00:41:26,400
the disease since the outbreak was

1059
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:27,640
reported

1060
00:41:32,390 --> 00:41:30,400
1927 cases have been admitted to the

1061
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:32,400
metropolitan hospitals

1062
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:35,599
at the present time 55 are dangerously

1063
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:37,520
ill according to the figures of the

1064
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:39,200
health department there has been a

1065
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:41,200
steady daily increase in the number of

1066
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:43,760
cases of influenza developing in the

1067
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:47,040
state since the end of january it is now

1068
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:48,800
reported that there is a serious

1069
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:52,240
shortage of trained nurses in victoria

1070
00:41:57,990 --> 00:41:55,680
many being infected and many overworked

1071
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:58,000
it's like somebody wrote this yesterday

1072
00:42:01,750 --> 00:41:59,280
let's read on

1073
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:01,760
the department of health has telegraphed

1074
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:05,440
to new zealand for 50 nurses immediately

1075
00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:08,079
the federal authorities in future will

1076
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:11,200
order the quarantining and examination

1077
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:13,280
of every overseas ship

1078
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:15,599
whether she has visited an infected

1079
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:17,599
australian port or not

1080
00:42:23,510 --> 00:42:20,560
although the influenza figures are

1081
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:23,520
getting far more serious the victorian

1082
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:25,760
health authorities seem to be

1083
00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:29,200
plodding quietly along as usual no

1084
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:31,520
action has been taken on the advisory

1085
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,359
board's recommendations

1086
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:35,280
and none of the regulations made are

1087
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:36,800
being observed

1088
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:38,960
in official and political circles the

1089
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:41,520
opinion is that melbourne hotels will be

1090
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:44,960
closed next week during the epidemic

1091
00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:46,400
liquor ordered

1092
00:42:49,349 --> 00:42:47,839
will still be

1093
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:49,359
delivered

1094
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:50,960
and what a note to win that

1095
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:53,359
extraordinary report

1096
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:56,400
that is just amazing

1097
00:43:01,589 --> 00:42:59,119
let me have another look to see when

1098
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:01,599
this was written

1099
00:43:06,950 --> 00:43:03,920
on the 10th of february

1100
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,790
can it get any more spooky than that

1101
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:10,480
well let's look at the

1102
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:12,640
newcastle morning herald and miners

1103
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:13,680
advocate

1104
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:17,839
dated the 16th of january 1951

1105
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:21,359
when flu raged in australia

1106
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:23,200
interstate trade and travel were

1107
00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:25,680
practically brought to a standstill by

1108
00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:27,280
commonwealth and state government

1109
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:28,640
restrictions

1110
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:31,440
in the pneumonic influenza epidemic of

1111
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:32,880
1918

1112
00:43:37,030 --> 00:43:34,480
1919

1113
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:37,040
the epidemic swept through europe and

1114
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:37,920
asia

1115
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:41,200
at the end of world war one in australia

1116
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:44,319
state borders were closed and interstate

1117
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:47,680
and coastal ships met rigid restrictions

1118
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:50,240
at quarantine stations the epidemic

1119
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:52,240
raged in victoria then spread to new

1120
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:54,960
south wales while scores of patients

1121
00:44:00,069 --> 00:43:57,040
were being admitted to hospital each day

1122
00:44:01,910 --> 00:44:00,079
in sydney a rigid check was kept on

1123
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:01,920
people leaving

1124
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:03,839
the city

1125
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,880
all right this is getting even spookier

1126
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:08,480
this is exactly what's happening at the

1127
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:10,640
moment

1128
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:13,200
all who left by train had to sign a

1129
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:15,839
declaration that they had

1130
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,800
won

1131
00:44:20,710 --> 00:44:18,880
not been in contact with an influenza

1132
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:20,720
patient for three days

1133
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:24,240
two passed through an inhalation chamber

1134
00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:26,800
in the 24 hours before traveling

1135
00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:27,760
three

1136
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:34,240
in addition to these requirements they

1137
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:36,640
needed a medical certificate stating

1138
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:38,079
they had no

1139
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:40,480
symptoms of influenza

1140
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:42,880
interstate travel on ships was

1141
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:45,359
similarly restricted the quarantine

1142
00:44:49,349 --> 00:44:47,200
station at northhead worked overtime

1143
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:49,359
since all ships coming and leaving had

1144
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:52,480
to be held at quarantine for four days

1145
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,480
at the government's request a medical

1146
00:44:59,030 --> 00:44:56,880
consultative council was formed the

1147
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:59,040
council mainly of doctors advised the

1148
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:01,119
health department and municipal

1149
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:04,000
authorities throughout the epidemic they

1150
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:06,319
recommended the use of masks

1151
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:08,560
border restrictions compulsory

1152
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:11,440
notification of patients and their early

1153
00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:14,319
removal to hospital as well as strict

1154
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:15,760
quarantine

1155
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:17,920
the council advised people to avoid

1156
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:21,119
crowds observe personal cleanliness keep

1157
00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:25,280
in the sunshine and prevent spitting and

1158
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:27,920
dirty habits most doctors said over

1159
00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:30,079
indulgence of alcohol was dangerous

1160
00:45:33,990 --> 00:45:32,480
because it lowered resistance to

1161
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:34,000
infection

1162
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:36,000
in sydney where the incidence was the

1163
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:38,079
highest in the state health authorities

1164
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:40,480
closed theaters picture shows and

1165
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:43,520
schools in the metropolitan area because

1166
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:45,920
of the risk of infection church services

1167
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:49,359
auction sales and race meetings were

1168
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:52,480
banned a bylaw was passed forcing men

1169
00:45:57,910 --> 00:45:55,599
and women to wear air filter masks

1170
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:57,920
police who patrolled the streets warned

1171
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:00,319
of the possibility of a rest of

1172
00:46:07,349 --> 00:46:03,599
pedestrians continuing to walk with the

1173
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:07,359
masks slung about their necks

1174
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:09,520
in the central court those caught not

1175
00:46:16,230 --> 00:46:12,560
wearing the filters in trains were fined

1176
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:16,240
two pounds a judge in banco court was

1177
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:18,400
reprimanded for having appeared on the

1178
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:19,440
bench

1179
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:20,880
unmasked

1180
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:23,119
although everyone realized the danger of

1181
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,560
influenza there were many complaints

1182
00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:28,800
some amusing a

1183
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:31,599
commercial traveler complained bitterly

1184
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:34,400
that his country clients would not speak

1185
00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:36,400
to him because they were scared of

1186
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:39,280
infection although he exclaimed he had

1187
00:46:44,790 --> 00:46:41,040
not returned to the city since the

1188
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:44,800
epidemic stormen continued to keep him

1189
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:46,160
at bay

1190
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:50,160
a spaniard was exceedingly annoyed and

1191
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:53,040
said his home country had been slighted

1192
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:56,079
when the influenza was wrongly called

1193
00:47:02,069 --> 00:46:58,880
spanish flu he claimed it had been taken

1194
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:02,079
to spain by russians writers condemned

1195
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:04,560
the position of north head quarantine

1196
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:07,119
station and said it should be moved to a

1197
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:09,440
more isolated position

1198
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:11,680
many businesses had their own

1199
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:13,200
inhalation

1200
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:16,240
rooms where staff stood in the foggy

1201
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:18,960
interior before leaving work

1202
00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:21,040
on the railway station passengers walked

1203
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:24,800
through a canvas-like maize attempting

1204
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:28,079
to seek immunity before donning their

1205
00:47:33,829 --> 00:47:30,800
masks for the train trip home about

1206
00:47:35,589 --> 00:47:33,839
october 1918 newcastle residents

1207
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:35,599
evidently

1208
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:38,480
realized they would be fortunate if the

1209
00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:40,800
epidemic did not reach the city

1210
00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:43,040
a start was made to clean up the

1211
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:46,240
municipality a house to house inspection

1212
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:49,119
was made so a record could be kept of

1213
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:50,160
general

1214
00:47:54,069 --> 00:47:51,520
cleanliness

1215
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:54,079
respirators were stocked in newcastle

1216
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:57,599
shops and continuous warfare was being

1217
00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:59,520
waged against

1218
00:48:03,510 --> 00:48:01,200
rats

1219
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:03,520
health department inoculation centers

1220
00:48:08,549 --> 00:48:05,520
similar to those operating in sydney

1221
00:48:12,430 --> 00:48:08,559
were set up in the municipality in the

1222
00:48:15,750 --> 00:48:12,440
first two months of 1919

1223
00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:15,760
725 000 people were inoculated in new

1224
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:19,280
south wales including 225 from the

1225
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:21,520
country and that of course meaning the

1226
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:24,160
uh the regional areas outside of the

1227
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:25,760
city of sydney

1228
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:27,839
thousands had died in sydney and

1229
00:48:32,829 --> 00:48:29,599
melbourne before there was notification

1230
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:32,839
of a case in newcastle early in february

1231
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:36,400
1919. the patient came from islington

1232
00:48:42,069 --> 00:48:40,079
and appeared to be an isolated case a

1233
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:42,079
month later when there was a lull in

1234
00:48:46,790 --> 00:48:44,160
sydney and the medical

1235
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:46,800
conservative council recommended that

1236
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:49,040
mosques were no longer needed

1237
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:52,800
the epidemic started in newcastle

1238
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:55,520
on march 3 an influenza patient died in

1239
00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:58,800
newcastle hospital two days later five

1240
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:01,200
nurses awards men and a patient who had

1241
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:03,680
been in the same ward had caught

1242
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:04,880
influenza

1243
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:06,800
in the following months emergency

1244
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:09,359
hospitals at walls end and

1245
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:11,359
were at 10 i think it says it's hard to

1246
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:13,280
say because it's faded

1247
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:16,800
received hundreds of patients each day

1248
00:49:22,710 --> 00:49:19,920
lists of the dangerously ill seriously

1249
00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:22,720
ill ill and convalescent patients were

1250
00:49:26,950 --> 00:49:25,760
published with the epidemic there came

1251
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:26,960
distress

1252
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:28,800
kitchens were opened in newcastle

1253
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:30,400
district to feed

1254
00:49:34,710 --> 00:49:32,720
those unable to

1255
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:34,720
fend for themselves

1256
00:49:39,190 --> 00:49:36,880
there was a shortage of staff at

1257
00:49:42,470 --> 00:49:39,200
particularly all shops and offices the

1258
00:49:45,030 --> 00:49:42,480
post office staff was so depleted that

1259
00:49:48,150 --> 00:49:45,040
telephone services were delayed and no

1260
00:49:49,589 --> 00:49:48,160
telegrams were delivered for a period

1261
00:49:51,549 --> 00:49:49,599
in two years

1262
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:51,559
11

1263
00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:55,040
552 people died in australia as a result

1264
00:49:58,549 --> 00:49:57,520
of influenza other countries suffered

1265
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:58,559
far more

1266
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:01,200
it is now estimated that about 20

1267
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:03,680
million people died in the world in the

1268
00:50:12,150 --> 00:50:09,460
epidemic

1269
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:12,160
[Music]

1270
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:14,559
and there we have it some

1271
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:15,920
eerie

1272
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:19,130
spooky uncanny

1273
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:20,240
[Music]

1274
00:50:24,870 --> 00:50:23,040
twilight zone reports from the past

1275
00:50:28,230 --> 00:50:24,880
especially when we look at the

1276
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:28,240
similarities to today's situation

1277
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:32,000
a real case of history repeating itself

1278
00:50:35,829 --> 00:50:34,400
and you too can find examples of history

1279
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:35,839
repeating itself by looking at the

1280
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:40,000
archives at trovatrov.nla.gov

1281
00:50:48,690 --> 00:50:42,880
a u and as i like to say

1282
00:50:48,700 --> 00:51:08,069
[Music]

1283
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:09,589
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1284
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:13,200
zone as i walk around the park and

1285
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:16,319
uh see families enjoying

1286
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:18,079
a nice day out and an insects just

1287
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:20,640
landed in my glasses

1288
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,480
that's podcasting for you

1289
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:24,400
thank you to those people who continue

1290
00:51:27,990 --> 00:51:26,720
to support the skeptic zone at patreon

1291
00:51:31,109 --> 00:51:28,000
or paypal

1292
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:31,119
by visiting skepticzone.tv

1293
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:33,599
and clicking the link

1294
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:36,480
your support keeps the show going

1295
00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:38,880
and indeed as you know as i discussed

1296
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:40,559
before all my other normal sources of

1297
00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:42,720
income have long since vanished

1298
00:51:46,069 --> 00:51:45,040
for months now because of the pandemic

1299
00:51:48,790 --> 00:51:46,079
so

1300
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:48,800
i am very grateful indeed for those

1301
00:51:52,950 --> 00:51:51,040
people who support the show if the show

1302
00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:52,960
means something to you

1303
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:54,800
if you enjoy it every week if you learn

1304
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:56,960
something if it keeps you company

1305
00:52:01,030 --> 00:51:59,200
if you get

1306
00:52:03,190 --> 00:52:01,040
pleasure from the show

1307
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:03,200
then maybe you can consider becoming a

1308
00:52:06,950 --> 00:52:05,200
supporter

1309
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:06,960
great to see kids running around being

1310
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:08,960
kids again

1311
00:52:13,030 --> 00:52:11,440
coming up on next week's show i think

1312
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:13,040
i'm going to look at

1313
00:52:16,790 --> 00:52:14,960
tick tock and believe it or not

1314
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:16,800
i've started using tick tock well i've

1315
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:18,880
posted a few cat videos

1316
00:52:21,829 --> 00:52:20,640
if you're interested richard underscore

1317
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:21,839
saunders

1318
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:23,760
i noticed that people like our friend dr

1319
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:26,480
karl krzelniski are on tick tock with

1320
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:29,119
good advice about their vaccinations

1321
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:31,200
and the curiosity show that wonderful

1322
00:52:35,589 --> 00:52:33,359
science show from the 1970s is on tick

1323
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:35,599
tock

1324
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:36,480
but

1325
00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:39,040
i've also noticed there are lots of

1326
00:52:43,030 --> 00:52:40,160
live

1327
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:43,040
tarot card readers on tick tock lots of

1328
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:45,119
live tarot card readers

1329
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:47,359
presumably making a

1330
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:49,040
a dollar or two

1331
00:52:53,510 --> 00:52:50,880
and people with uh

1332
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:54,309
you know

1333
00:52:58,630 --> 00:52:55,920
thinking that they can actually use

1334
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:58,640
those to get mystical insights

1335
00:53:04,870 --> 00:53:00,960
whereas hello another little insect on

1336
00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:04,880
me go away whereas you and i know uh

1337
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:06,480
they've succumbed to the idiom motor

1338
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:07,440
action

1339
00:53:12,630 --> 00:53:09,119
regardless it's all happening on tick

1340
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:12,640
tock we might look at that next week

1341
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:15,040
and a plane normally

1342
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:16,800
i stopped recording when the planes fly

1343
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:20,000
over but today i think it's okay

1344
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:23,200
but for this week from yo park here

1345
00:53:27,670 --> 00:53:25,440
in the inner west part of sydney near

1346
00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:27,680
the skeptic's own studios this is

1347
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:38,470
you've been listening to the skeptic

1348
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:39,920
zone podcast

1349
00:53:44,470 --> 00:53:41,359
please visit our website at

1350
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:47,589
for show notes contacts and to access

1351
00:53:52,309 --> 00:53:50,160
the back catalog of episodes going back

1352
00:53:54,309 --> 00:53:52,319
to 2008.

1353
00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:54,319
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1354
00:53:59,190 --> 00:53:57,040
on twitter at skepticzone

1355
00:54:01,430 --> 00:53:59,200
visit our facebook page or leave a

1356
00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:01,440
review on itunes

1357
00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:03,599
you can also support the skeptic zone

1358
00:54:10,150 --> 00:54:06,800
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1359
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:10,160
podcast is an independent production the

1360
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:11,760
views and opinions expressed on the

1361
00:54:16,549 --> 00:54:14,000
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1362
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:16,559
of australian skeptics or any other

1363
00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:18,210
skeptical organization

1364
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:31,670
the moment i got my shots it was like

1365
00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:34,400
wow what a sense of relief so folks

1366
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:36,720
i am talking with some of the people on

1367
00:54:56,309 --> 00:54:54,470
this is rob palmer susan goebeck and our

1368
00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:56,319
very own michelle bickersma hello

1369
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:57,680
everybody

1370
00:55:02,789 --> 00:55:01,440
hello it's the skeptical fairy oh you

1371
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:02,799
know the skeptical fairy don't you

1372
00:55:07,270 --> 00:55:04,559
michelle

1373
00:55:09,190 --> 00:55:07,280
a little she's a friend of yours

1374
00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:09,200
and i never see you in the same place

1375
00:55:12,789 --> 00:55:10,640
same place

1376
00:55:14,069 --> 00:55:12,799
yeah never happens that's what i should

1377
00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:14,079
do i should write a sketch where

1378
00:55:18,630 --> 00:55:15,839
michelle goes to visit the skeptical

1379
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:18,640
fairy i think that would be great

1380
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:22,000
because we're just merely acquainted

1381
00:55:25,990 --> 00:55:23,599
so we haven't done this for a few weeks

1382
00:55:27,670 --> 00:55:26,000
we're going to play the dice game now uh

1383
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:27,680
i'm on zoom with these people because

1384
00:55:32,309 --> 00:55:29,520
we've just finished another session on

1385
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:32,319
the great these people these people on

1386
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:35,200
the great australian prediction project

1387
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:36,960
let's do the dice game i'll let you

1388
00:55:42,990 --> 00:55:38,160
choose

1389
00:55:45,670 --> 00:55:43,000
i've got a d60 a d20 a d30

1390
00:55:47,270 --> 00:55:45,680
d64 what number what

1391
00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:47,280
all of them

1392
00:55:50,710 --> 00:55:49,359
all them all right first roll one for

1393
00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:50,720
each round one

1394
00:55:56,230 --> 00:55:52,720
all right the first one i'm holding that

1395
00:55:58,510 --> 00:55:56,240
up it's a d60 it's a 60-sided die

1396
00:56:01,750 --> 00:55:58,520
so 160 it's going to be a

1397
00:56:03,270 --> 00:56:01,760
160 it'll be a

1398
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:03,280
of course

1399
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:05,760
rob what do you say this is likely

1400
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:07,920
anybody else's number to come up so yeah

1401
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:11,119
yeah you know right now i know my math i

1402
00:56:19,750 --> 00:56:14,720
know my collets conjecture health stream

1403
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:21,750
um all right so you said it's a 60 i

1404
00:56:26,549 --> 00:56:22,960
will take

1405
00:56:29,109 --> 00:56:26,559
random number that means nothing 42. 42.

1406
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:32,950
i'm going for 23 i was going to go with

1407
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:34,720
three but i thought that's kind of been

1408
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:38,400
a missed opportunity on a 60 side

1409
00:56:43,670 --> 00:56:41,040
a little bit to a 23. all right here he

1410
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:43,680
comes here it comes

1411
00:56:49,589 --> 00:56:47,040
it rolls onto a 52

1412
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:49,599
oh almost 42. well that's a five

1413
00:56:52,630 --> 00:56:50,640
it's two

1414
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:52,640
52.

1415
00:56:56,240 --> 00:57:09,990
your equation

1416
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:12,470
psychics making um you know making uh

1417
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:15,119
postings okay here we go a fourth

1418
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:17,440
four-sided four-sided oh

1419
00:57:22,150 --> 00:57:20,319
we're switching we're switching four

1420
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:22,160
four i go for four four there'll be a

1421
00:57:31,030 --> 00:57:24,319
five little knock up on to the floor and

1422
00:57:35,910 --> 00:57:34,309
i will still go for three i'll scale it

1423
00:57:39,109 --> 00:57:35,920
back down

1424
00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:39,119
the size of the dice and it is

1425
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:40,400
a four

1426
00:57:43,190 --> 00:57:42,000
yes

1427
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:43,200
that's the first time i've been writing

1428
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:48,150
all right and we'll end with the

1429
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:50,640
traditional six sided here we go and

1430
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:52,079
i'll get my

1431
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:54,640
nice rolling get your greg durray yep

1432
00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:56,640
there it is

1433
00:58:01,270 --> 00:57:59,119
so six sided what do we have

1434
00:58:03,030 --> 00:58:01,280
it's a five

1435
00:58:05,430 --> 00:58:03,040
five

1436
00:58:07,349 --> 00:58:05,440
i'm gonna stick with three and since i

1437
00:58:09,349 --> 00:58:07,359
got the maximum on the other die four

1438
00:58:10,870 --> 00:58:09,359
i'll go for six and i'll hold this one

1439
00:58:13,109 --> 00:58:10,880
up i'm going to use this one it's a

1440
00:58:15,829 --> 00:58:13,119
south point casino diet

1441
00:58:17,349 --> 00:58:15,839
from the days of tam look at that

1442
00:58:20,829 --> 00:58:17,359
amazing

1443
00:58:27,530 --> 00:58:24,549
two michelle you should have picked it

1444
00:58:29,430 --> 00:58:27,540
i'm the 23. so today's winning numbers

1445
00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:29,440
[Music]

1446
00:58:37,349 --> 00:58:34,000
54 4 and 2 and thank you everybody

1447
00:58:40,069 --> 00:58:37,359
that's not fair i i'm gonna

1448
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:40,079
there's this this game is really what is

1449
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:42,319
it the first number 52 all right first

1450
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:44,720
number four 52. you should look on the

1451
00:58:50,470 --> 00:58:46,880
other side since you're in opposite land

1452
00:58:53,349 --> 00:58:50,480
for one for one more chance for you

1453
00:58:55,270 --> 00:58:53,359
susan i'm gonna use a d6

1454
00:58:56,710 --> 00:58:55,280
ready wait wait let me see let me see

1455
00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:56,720
the die

1456
00:58:59,990 --> 00:58:58,799
the standard one i see a five move it

1457
00:59:01,829 --> 00:59:00,000
around let me make sure it doesn't have

1458
00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:01,839
five in every side okay all right just

1459
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,549
stupid game